tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN September 16, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT
>> my feelings are, as well as the family, the truth will come out. it's something we've been long awaited for. and it's up to the point now where it's been a lot of speculation and hearsay, but i think that we're all going to -- it's not going to bring closure but it will give us a clear understanding of what really happened. i think it's important that the fans and the public as well as ourselves, need to know what really happened. what took place. there's so many things that happened that we were not aware of as a family because we were kept away. >> do you think that conrad
murray was solely responsible for your brother's death? >> my gut feeling is that the fact that conrad was present during his death, there's a lot of questions to be answered. we don't know yet. until the trial unfolds and we sort of get the facts. whether they'll come to the facts or not by doing the book, i got a clear understanding of a lot of things that i didn't know from the past. and how all these things came about with michael's life and who he interacted with during his business and all those things. up to present day. >> it seems to come down to this. i would imagine conrad murray's defense is going to be that he was encouraged to prescribe this propofol drug to michael that night. the drug that is believed to have killed him. i would imagine that on your side, you will be arguing as a family and, i'm sure the prosecutes s prosecutors will, too, that this was all conrad
murray's decision. it then all comes down to addiction. whether michael was addicted. what he was addicted to, and whether the prescription of this drug was just a part of that addiction. what do you think of that? >> well, i think that, first of all, being a cardiologyist and not an anesthesiologist. he had no business giving my brother propofol. i just learned about this drug doing the book. in terms of them trying to say my brother was an addict or addicted, we know my brother was on prescription drugs. whether it was demerol because of excruciating pain or him wanting to have sleep. >> that's the powerful part of your book. michael had a chronic inability to sleep. i knew having worked in the media for years he had a difficulty with it. i had no idea how bad it was.
he would literally be unable to get any sleep at all. night after night? >> just coming off the stage and there's like 180,000 people out there and your adrenalin is going so high and you're doing so much and it's hard to just put your head on the pillow and sleep. it just goes on and on even after you're off the stage. he always said that he didn't want to tour because he didn't want to have the problems other of not sleeping and having to take demerol and things like that but he wasn't addicted to it, because his behavior wasn't to the point where he was an addict. he was looking for this for sleep. and he trusted whoever administered these things to him. he trusted them. >> and when people hear about drug addictions like with celebrities they tend to think, you know, cocaine or ecstasy or heroin or whatever it may be. clearly, we're not in that kind of situation with michael. these were not drugs to make him high or get any kind of high experience.
the drugs he was taking were all pore pain and all for sleep. >> exactly. >> could it have been, though, by the end, after years of insomnia, he had become, in a way, addicted to any type of drug that would get him the sleep he craved? do you think that's possible? >> i really don't know but i do know that it's a difference between demerol and propofol. and. >> tell me about propofol. you studied this for your book and it's as the that iing what you found out. it's a much stronger drug than people realize. >> it a much stronger drug. it puts you out and basically, it's used when people are under the knife and they want to not feel the pain. but the key to this is, when you're a proven anesthesiologist and you're in the proper settings and the right medical field, you know how much to administer to the patient to keep him above the line, but not
so above the line where he feels the pain. but keeping them from going below the line. >> this propofol, is it considered by most physicians, to be an anesthetic, rather than just a sleeping pill? >> i really don't know. but i do know, for michael to get sleep he had to be knocked out. this wasn't just this one night. this was administered in him on an ongoing basis, which was causing his body to deteriorate and him to act differently and have different symptoms in his behavior. >> you as a family, you were probably the closest to michael of all the family. collectively, you must have all known he had this ongoing chronic problem, with sleep in particular. when did you see conrad murray that night in the hospital? >> i saw conrad when i first went to the hospital. then when i came back from seeing michael i went back to the room where my mother was and i was setting on the other side of the table, like i'm here at
the table and the table is between us, my mother is here and you're conrad. we were not this close, though. i didn't know who he was. but i said, something strange about this guy. he's acting strange. i formed that opinion before i found out who he was. >> and when you say "strange" do you mean -- >> his behavior. >> his behavior, how he was acting. >> did he look concerned? >> all of the above. it was just something that just wasn't right. it just wasn't normal. >> did you talk to him? >> no, no. >> did he say anything to any of the family? >> he wanted to come in, i guess, and say his, something to my mother and his condolences or something but i felt uneasy with him. >> did you know that he had been with michael that night? >> i found out that he was with michael. he was there.
but, see, this is a strange case because this is treated as a homicide and the lapd who did their investigation and then there's the whereabouts of who came in and out of the house. the tapes are erased. so we really don't know. there's a lot of questions. >> which tapes were erased? >> the surveillance tapes were erased. >> they're all gone? >> some of the tapes were erase the of the people coming in and out of the house at the time. >> who do you think they erased. >> they were in the hands of the police department. >> do you think that maybe some kind of cover-up? >> what do you think? i -- i -- i would think as a family member, yes. >> michael's last tour, why jermaine said it was too much for him. >> this were only concerned about the show. moving the show forward. [ male announcer ] this...is the network.
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you cannot dispute the fact that he seems to be in pretty good physical shape. the rehearsals are going great and the show looks amazing and he looks excited. this is not the portrait of a guy who's on the virge of death. so i, as a fan of his, was shocked when i watched it to try to work out how it came to his death. you as a family member, it must be ten times as shocked. you were talking to him most days. how often did you talk to michael? >> we spoke to him not that much during rehearsal. but we last saw him may 14th. >> do you know how long he had been given propofol? >> when -- when "this is it" there was a lot of footage taken out that no one saw because that was the edit before the edit. and it's just -- so much went on. >> is that footage damaging? do you see a guy in a bit of a daze? a bit of a zombie? what's the stuff we didn't see.
>> things that we noticed. and this is why the defense is going to try to paint my brother out to be a drug addict and he was very dependent on drugs and it's not true. how could someone be dependent on drugs since 2008, he was dancing four hours a day and a five-year plan of starting a new life. >> let me throw something at you about this. i know somebody that's a very famous tv star. very famous, one of the biggest stars in the world, who takes sleeping pills every night so sleep because he finds the adrenalin, too much going on. i was on ambien for three weeks after breaking some ribs and when i had to stop, it was like cold turkey. these will strong drugs and propofol is significantly stronger than anything that this friend of mine takes or that i was taking that time. so if michael was getting this stuff over a regular period of
time, he could still be performing perfectly well but as you say, underneath it, the damage would be pretty intensive, i would say. >> that's the question. michael has always had an anesthesiologist around him when he was taking things. >> someone who knew -- someone who knew about the process of knocking somebody out for the purposes of sleep? >> and, plus, he's lived all this time doing demerol and sleeping pills and also, pain pills, but, the symptoms from propofol are like, no one knew that he was -- the public didn't know that he was complaining about his body. one side being an ice cube. another side being very warm. >> do you know how long he had been taking it? is there any evidence that you've seen? >> i really don't know, but -- >> what is the family's belief? what is the theory that you think about that? >> our belief is that we knew he was doing prescription drugs to sleep and pain.
we didn't know about propofol. i just found out about this drug which i can't pronounce hardly. but the symptoms, the reason why i want to talk about the symptoms because if you look at the past tours, we never heard of these symptoms that michael -- not knowing whether to go right or left when he goes on stage. >> who was he telling about the symptoms symptoms? the family? >> people around him. him not being able to lift himself out of a five-pound prop or something and repeating himself. him, losing unbelievable weight. and these are signs of toxic in your body. >> are these signs from what you've been able to work out, of propofol abuse? in other words, long-term use of that specific drug?
are these side effects that you've identified? >> these are symptoms of that because of the fact that it was administered in him outside of a hospital setting, the person wasn't adequate enough to do this, and the fact that the night that he died, he was -- he had just arranged a $15 million payment on a house. that's say he can had plans of going beyond "this is it." >> michael was a tough character when it came to business. he knew his own mind. he was the most fabulously successful entertainer of his generation and by common agreement, when it came to his business, his craft, he could be a tough demanding task master of people. and, also, quite obstinate. is it possible, do you think, to be fair-minded to conrad murray for a moment, be dispassionate been take yourself out of the family position for a moment, is it possible knowing michael,
that he could have just ordered and demanded that conrad murray give him this drug? that conrad murray, i believe he's going to claim, he tried to resist him but eventually, succumbed to pressure. is is that possible? >> whether it's possible or not, being a doctor, you take an oath. to care for your patient, not to kill them. you take an oath to do things that are prop her the medical world. not to administer something outside of a hospital setting that's out of your area. you're a cardiologyist. not an anesthesiologist. >> michael trusted doctors. dr. murray should have said "no." under no circumstances, no. the fact that these symptoms went on and everybody around him that wasn't concerned about how he felt. they were only concerned about the show. moving the show forward.
>> these are people working for aeg? >> these are people working for aeg and working for him. working for the show. >> i mean, there was 5u8z a bit of a circus around michael in his life. how many of the people directly around him at the time that he died, do you think, are culpable for a form of responsibility for his death? >> see, that's the question i have. that's a question we have as a family, because i've said in the book, why didn't somebody call me or jackie or tito or marlon or his family, to say, come down here. your brother is not acting normal. had we been called he would be alive today. we would have taken him to the hospital. >> why do you think they didn't? >> because they wanted the show to go on. they knew -- the same thing of knowing that it wasn't his voice 100% on those songs that were released. it's all about -- this is a story about greed and power and money.
and not looking at the person in michael. what i tried to do in the book is to show my little brother, us growing up as the jackson 5, kids with a dream. the human side of him. no matter how great the success had became, he still is from a family. we're humans and -- >> you basically, i believe, as a family, reading the book, that the pressure from the people who were putting on this huge extravaganza, this amazing tour -- i had tickets to the first night in london. i was very excited about it. the greatest live performer i've ever seen. there were people there who had nearly, billions of dollars, certainly, tens, hundreds of millions of dollars at stake of this tour being successful. it's not in their interest to raise any alarm bells about his health, is it?
>> no, because the fact that still, if you have tens of billions of dollars, you still want more but this was answer -- this was an event that would put money in everybody's pockets but at the same time, his health was ignored. it was like they pushed and pushed this bird whose wings were injured and they pushed him off the cliff and expected him to fly and he fell. he fell. >> when you saw michael after he died in the hospital, how did he physically look to you. obviously, he was dead but how did he look in terms of the michael you knew? was it the same kind of body that you would expect? >> no. he had gone from like 150 to 136. he was frail. he was thin. i touched his face. his face was still soft. i kissed his forehead and then i pulled one of his eyelids back because i wanted to look in his eyes. and i couldn't believe that what
i saw wasn't my brother. and for people who had been around him all these years, to see that and not say something, it bothers me and it bothers us as a family. what were they concerned about? money, their jobs, or my brother's health? >> do you believe you're going to get answers from this trial? or this simply just not going to be enough evidence? >> to tell you the truth, piers, the defense is going to try to paint my brother out to be the most horrible person and he wasn't. he was most concerned about the world and healing the world and children who have been starving. that's not the behavior of a drug addict. that's not the behavior of a person who is irresponsible and just wants to be high all day. he was never the type of person
to take drugs for recreation who was irresponsible or didn't care. so my -- to answer your question, we're not going to get michael back. if conrad murray goes to jail, whatever happens, i really don't know. we lost an incredible human being, a brother who my little brother, who just really, cared about the world. to answer your question -- we really don't know. we really don't know. i've written this book to show the world and to show the fans that this is who we are as a family. it was a long process. and it opened my eyes to a lot of things that i didn't know. the crap and the garbage that has been written about my family for so many years and all these other books they were unauthorized and people saying things that didn't know us. and then thinking, we're from a small house in gary, indiana, with humble beginnings. so we were not privy to crooks
and people who had hidden agendas. >> were any of the family attend the trial? >> oh, yes. >> will you be there? >> absolutely. >> every day? >> i'm going to try to be there as much as i can, yes. >> how do you think you'll feel when you see conrad murray standing there? >> i don't feel good about him before i knew him so i'll feel the same way. but what i want for this whole thing is for michael's death not to be a question of murder. too many people loved him. do you know, michael, he was -- he touched the hearts of many people around the world. that's important. that's why the world cried when he passed because they understood him. >> let's take a break, jermaine, and then come back and go back to those early days in indiana. go back to the young michael and the dreams that he had and you all had as a family.
>> jermaine, you've written this extraordinarily honest, frank and open book. it's called "you are not alone:michael through his brother's eyes." what was he like as a young guy? describe the michael before it all became like a circus. >> michael was a very joyful kid. he was very fast on his feet. he was always into things. he was a bit nosey at times. he was a kid who always had dreams and he wanted to play store. and i'd tell a story of how we were looking out the window and singing the christmas songs and watching the snow fall and looking at our neighbor's homes because we were not allowed to have christmas being jehovah's witnesses. and these are things he missed. if you know the song "childhood "it says a lot about his life.
>> do you ever wish as a family, and i've interviewed janet and la toya this year and they've been quite revealing about this. do you ever wish that you hadn't gone through the door marked superstardom to fame. >> i was always told i never left and i'm still that boy back in gary because no matter where we come from, we never forget that little house and my father being laid off and picking up potatoes to feed us and the ongoing rehearsals all the time. and being taught to stick together. stick together, you're family, not a business. you're a family. >> well here in california, you have this beautiful home. very luxurious. amazing stuff you've collected on a material level. the badges of great success that you've enjoyed with your and your family.
but do you have peace of mind? did you lose peace of mind getting to where you got to in. >> no, because we've always known that this is just an illusion. success is nothing. it's what you share with one another as a family. it like to prove my point, michael was loved by so many people and during the trial, the whole world was accusing him of child molestation and saying most horrible things and all this stuff happened and at the end of the day, what has true value? seeing his family there supporting him. all this material stuff has no value at all. i mean, he's gone. he can't take never land with him, the catalog, nothing. he left a lot of good deeds. >> michael was a contrary figure. i interviewed him once and he had a very gentle, swreet voice in talking about his family and
children and so on and when i talked to him about business, it was like his voice dropped a couple of octaves and he switched into the game mode and it was very revealing to me that he was quite a comedian. he had different characters depending on what you were discussing and i guess, who he was with and he had a tough streak. but i also felt that he was not addicted to fame but he loved a lot, being a huge star. he played that role very well. and he played up to it. he would go on million-dollar shopping sfrees, amazing cars, jets, neverland, a large part of it he loved and he craved. >> there's no question. he loved enjoying his life. but at the same time, he became a victim of his success. and he came withdrawn. and when the "thriller" came out it was a major success and that's when all the whacko jacko
came out. they started calling him all these things. and this is someone who has never forgotten how we were taught. you care about people. people have feelings. he had a lot of feelings. you don't think it hurt him when people called him "whacko jacko?" and there were moments when things happened -- >> don't you think he slightly encouraged that impression by people? he would do strange things quite deliberately, i always felt, as a marketing tool. it made him much more interesting so he played up to a lot of the whacko jacko things, didn't he? >> not so much of the whacko jacko. the child. he got caught up in the moment. >> when he dangled the baby. >> let me ask you that. i'll play devil's advocate a little bit. when he did that, i couldn't imagine you doing that with any of your kids. michael -- he didn't play life
rules by the same rules that we all do. i mean, i would never have done that to one of my children. i don't think you would have done it, it's so obviously dangerous -- >> but piers, we do things with children without knowing it. i agree, he got caught up in the moment. it was an exciting moment. but we've always -- we've all taken a child and tossed them up in the air and caught them, we've all done it. >> but not over a balcony. >> but when children are falling they lose their breath, we've all done things. he was showing the fans his child. i agree. it wasn't the smartest thing to do but he got caught up in the moment. >> i always felt when he did stuff like that, was it kind of -- it propagated the myth that he wasn't entirely normal. did you feel that you lost the little brother you once had? he became something else? how did you feel as his brother? >> michael was very, very much normal.
how could someone write the songs that he wrote and -- "machine in the mirror" "heal the world" and not be concerned about the most important things in life, about conserve -- preserving this world and making this place a better place to live for one another. these were the most important things. these are the things we don't look at but at the same time he's a human being. those final nights of "this is it" i wish people would have looked at the human person. and not the superstar. and say, we ought to get him help. there's something wrong.
>> if i was a tough -- your father was tough. >> my father was tough but that's still love. because you care to discipline your child and to show them the right path. >> the most interesting aspect from the book, i think, which is the racism that your father endured when he was young. and how that may have been a very motivating driving factor for the way he became. that he was determined to combat that, not just for him but his family as well. >> we didn't want color to hold us back. we were taught, we knew there was racism but we wasn't going to use that as a card. but we knew that it existed.
but at the same time, we wanted to go beyond color. we wanted to have a music and a message that transcends color. we knew that it existed but it didn't stop us. we wanted to go beyond that. we wanted to bring -- that's why we love the peacock, because of the different colors coming together. the whole thing was -- coming together. >> as a big brother, what is the truth about michael's skin color change over the years? was any part of that a reaction to all this stuff that was going on when he was young? all this race, violence, there's and so on? was any part of him wishing he wasn't so black? >> no, not at all. michael was happy -- michael suffered from a disease called vitiligo and the pigmentation on his skin. one morning he had slipped and
fell and he went to the hospital and so i came over and my mother was there and my father was there and he was very upset because he said -- he's the most misunderstood person in the world and he pulled off his shirt and patches of his brown skin. that's why he wore the umbrella, the skun would just make it worse and there was a stage of lupus that he had, too. and one of those things. >> all this stuff, again, that people used against michael to make him out as slightly crazy. you as a family member, close to him, big brother, saw that it wasn't that at all? >> but, see, this book is so important because all the questions that people had in their mind, i tried to answer these questions by giving the facts. i defy anybody who reads the book and not tell just up to his death, that something doesn't smell -- something smells.
and those are the questions as a family member that's in my mind and my mother's and father's and waiting for this trial but what is it really going to do for us? we role really don't know. >> we'll take another break and when we come back we'll talk more about michael and what he became like as an adult. how difficult he found it when "thriller" was the biggest selling album in history. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? woah! [ giggles ]
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>> when michael became the biggest star in the world after "thriller" did it change him, do you think? you were his big brother. how did you see that impact on him as a human being? >> well, i do know that he wanted to sell the most albums ever. and he wrote it on the mirror in the bathroom at the haven hurst house. look at it, live it, believe it and see it. that's what we were taught when we were young. he would visualize that and he wrote it on his mirror. and also, to sell out stadiums. >> as he got ever more successful and richer, his self-esteem levels seemed to deteriorate. and to illustrate that, he kept having more and more plastic surgery to, i guess, in his eyes to improve his look. when i talked to janet she also talked of self-esteem issues and la toya did, too. michael, i think, clearly had
it, otherwise, why would he keep trying to change the way he looked. what was your view? >> i think he wanted to change the way he looked because he wanted to improve things. it's like if you have a zit on your face, you want to pop it. if you see something on your face with your ears are too big, your nose is too flat or your chin is too long, you want to improve it. i wouldn't say it comes from self-esteem. but there are surgeons out there, especially in hollywood, and for people in hollywood to talk about this, most of hollywood has been up under the knife. and his whole thing was he wanted to correct things and to make things look better. but i wish he would have looked at the beauty of himself. >> he was a good looking guy to start with. >> he was a natural beauty within and out. >> i don't want to ham they are point but doesn't that tell you he must have had -- it wasn't just about wanting look better. it's more to do with not being
happy with how he looked. >> well, yeah, not so much not being happy but wanting make things better. >> that was making a record for 4i7 him. was he just a perfectionist? >> i think in his mind he had something that he was going after but with these things, once you start you get caught up into it and you want to do i a little here and there and there. but he was still the michael that we knew. the eyes and the heart, the feelings. the emotions and the -- you know, how he felt for people. that would never change. >> you clearly feel, jermaine, that your brother is going to get trashed in this court case? >> well, look what they did in the child molestation case. they painted him out to be the most horrible person and saying most horrible things. and i'm sitting there and just imagine being michael. all your life you want to do nothing but good and you're
hearing these things from people that you trusted to come into your home are now sitting on the stand and lying and saying the most hurting things. it's hard. it's been tough for him. >> i remember all that. and it just always struck me that i didn't know enough about the reality of the truth, certainly not in the position that you were. it seemed to me that michael, he did stuff that was, to the public, a bit inappropriate, especially as he got older. did you ever think of his big brother, of warning him, it may not be a good idea to have sleepovers with young boys because people won't get it. they won't understand what you're doing? >> i'm the same way because what's wrong with sleepovers. sleepovers with kids. it's the demented mind that thinks something different. it's like michael said it best. why do you really relate the bed to sex. we can have sex standing up or in the car or outside on the ground.
and during those times when he was sharing his bed he was on the floor. but at the same time, these are people's minds who were demented like they were saying, neverland was used to bring in kids to molest them and when you go to neverland, they have a wheelchair ramp going up to rides. he was concerned about bringing the joy to kids who were terminally ill, dying, of all types of diseases. this is a man who lived his life according to god's will. he really cared about people and it's so sad because this world didn't look at that until after he was dead. and he was trying to say this all along while he was alive. >> when you watch ifinterview, the infamous interview, clearly michael did that to try to set the record straight and if anything, made it ten times worse. when you watch that, what did you feel about that interview? >> well, first of all, martin bashir needs to be slapped and never should have been around michael and there again, michael trusted.
and see, why does -- there's a question for us why does people in the media want to say the most horrible things about someone knowing that they have all the right intentions to do good? >> i guess the answer, if i'm putting my media hat back on, 'cause i worked in newspapers at the time of all that, is that it's not normal, i use that word just in a straightforward way, for a guy of say 44 to be sharing a bed with a boy of 12. that is not what most men of 44 do. so when the public hear about this -- >> how do you know that? how do you know about that? >> i am just guess. >> you can't just guess, see, that happens all over the world and people don't think of that as -- >> but you believe that? >> yes. yes. >> you think so? >> yes, it does. >> not casting aofficers, i am just saying i don't think it does happen all over the world.
was michael too innocent for this modern world, do you think? >> absolutely. >> you really believe that that he was just from a different era? >> he was from the era that we were from. i wish that we were around him more too to tell him, michael, get this person away from you because they have a hidden agenda. whether it was the -- all the people who accused him of the -- of the child molestation but at the same time, he saw the good in people, the good. >> when we come back, the trial and why jermaine doesn't want michael's children there. >> you think they should be there. i think they should stay away from the tv because they are going to say the the most horrible things. [ male announcer ] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence that is helping business rethink how to do business.
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>> this is a celebration of his life, of his legacy. >> he was caring and funny, honest, pure, and he was a lover of life. >> daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. >> how are his three children? >> very, very, very, very well. we made sure that they were in a school and we are constantly monitoring their whereabouts and
their interactions with kids at school because today, there are drugs in schools and private schools and public schools, everything, but see, it's hard to sort of shelter them and keep them away. they have to grow up and be human beings and you know -- >> do they use the internet and stuff like that? >> they do, but we don't like t we don't like it. >> 'cause there is so much stuff about their father, it must be difficult? >> it is very hard. we want them to stay off the internet and that is very, very, very, very tough. had that's got to be monitored more. >> do any of them show any signs of wanting to follow in michael's footsteps? >> they are very much into film. they are very much into film. they know about directors, producers, movies, and they have interests to be in front and behind the camera. >> who do you think has the most chance of being a successful actor or actress? >> well, paris is a star.
and prince is -- i think they are into film now, too, they are going into acting. >> here is the thing, jermaine, because you have the choice now, because you are one of the elder family members here who can control the way these kids' lives go. given everything that happened to michael and to you and to your brothers and sisters and your family, does any part of you want to stop that train right now for those kids and say, gonna be a banker. go and be a doctor? go and do something completely different. do not go down this path because it's -- there are so many pitfalls or does the good that you've enjoyed from all this outweigh the bad? >> the good definitely outweighs the bad but the advice that i would give, no matter how great the success is, family comes first. you got your family, the vultures, the crooks, they can't penetrate that circle because there's strength in numbers and
went family is close, no one can get in between that. michael had gotten away from the family. family. >> how would you handle the trial with regard to the kids? are they going to go to court? are they going to be able to watch the television coverage? going to be wall-to-wall, a huge news story for several months. >> that's my mother's call. i don't think they should be there i think they should stay away from the tv because they are going to say the most horrible things. they are going to try to -- they don't need to hear that because they know who their father was and we know who our brother was and it was just -- that's defense approach. >> michael's not here to protect himself now. when this trial starts, if you feel that he is getting unfairly trashed in there how are you going to deal with that? >> michael's done so much good and so many good deeds that he is well protected.
we know where he is. it hurts every day. it hurts my mother, hurts my brothers, my sisters. it hurts his fans. but the life that he lived on this -- on this earth, it was a good life but it was also a bad life because they were after him. they were after him because they didn't believe the good. the good in him. >> going to be a tough time for you and your family for the next few weeks. i wish you luck with it, jermaine and thank you for being so honest. an extraordinary book. i recommend people to read tax much better understanding, i think, of what your brother was really like so i appreciate you spending the time. jermaine, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> been a pleasure. that's all for tonight. hello, i'm